31 "A Complexity Sherpa" and "There Is No Middle Ground"

Guest 1: [00:00:00] That whole pandemic experience really solidified what was actually the early start of my career. I was working as a system designer. I was put on full time on a job focused on how countries manage epidemics. We were working for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation on this large scale project, and we had already set our research plans, which included going to Ghana for two weeks. We had interviews with the Ministry of Health, the Ghanaian Health Services, anyway, and we landed in Ghana exactly as the president of the US declared that there was going to be border closures. So we arrived. So yeah, once I spent one single day in Ghana and, canceled our trip to Nigeria and other countries as well. [00:00:46][46.8]

I mean, it brought to light the complexity of systems for everyone. I was working it and living it and trying to wrap my head around it, and, and so I continue to work on that project for another year and a half, and we canceled all our subsequent trips. But I think it was just a very surreal experience where everyone shared together and everyone was aware of just how interconnected all systems are, especially health care systems. I'd say I use visuals almost like a complexity, sure, but someone who guides people through this vast kind of field of options and that way visually help people be on the same page. I think the analogy of a map is the best is when people gather around the map, they're able to point at a specific place and talk about where it is in relation to others and how they might want to go there.

And so that analogy definitely carries through creating these maps where everyone can point at it, and literally on the same page about exactly what services and systems they're actually attempting to change. So I weave together a lot of the plans, the understanding of what's even being worked on in a highly visual way, and along the way also affect kind of the designs of what's selected to move forward. So I do all of that in the context of large scale health care systems. I spent many, many years as an artist and illustrator, working to tell stories and paint pictures of how things should be. So I studied product design and got interested in systems design because I wanted to design systems, but that's such a nebulous big thing to say. How do you even go about doing that? So I continued my education and learned systems thinking and systems oriented design, which looks at how to design systems not just technically, but the human and organizational aspects as well. So through that journey, I came across health care not because I'd originally set my sights on it, but because I'd learned this process of navigating system complexity.

And I use a lot of my graphic design and art skills to help parse out and kind of illuminate exactly what's happening in these complicated health care systems as well. So the diagrams and the charts are a way that I sum up all the research that I've done, all the different individuals I've talked to about what's going on in the system. And through an iterative process, I developed these maps and diagrams and models that help kind of walk the different project stakeholders to exactly what the focus is and what are the issues and what elements of the system are we trying to focus on. So all that to say, it is has a lot of elements of project management, but it's more focused on the people and the qualitative interrelationships of it all. That's how I would maybe make that distinction.

My projects have been in emergency rooms, so I've done a lot of research and explored a lot of different ways we could improve the patient experience for those with accidents and emergencies. And certain things have moved forward, certain things we were able to pilot and see if it's worth continuing. But even if none of those worked, the things that I've produced and have not made part of the organization or the files of the reports, if those things are sometimes referenced, the next person that comes on in the next two three years, they'll at least be able to know what was tried and for what reason. And they're not having to do all the research work that I did as well. So that in itself is also valuable. [00:04:34][223.1]

Naty : [00:04:39] Hey folks, it's Naty we'll be back with more right after this break. What the hell is my job? [00:04:51][11.8]

Guest: [00:04:52] Mumbai is the place where I was born and brought up. So that's the city that I have lived for more than 25 years. It's very busy. It's very crowded. It's a lot like, honestly, like New York. I would say it's a fast life. And that's why it was very easy for me to adjust in New York easily. I don't feel homesick here, but moment I'm outside New York, I start feeling homesick. The busy hustle and bustle I like in both the cities, and I think I'm a city girl unless I'm Mr. Bobbin girl. Growing up in Mumbai then on line was disparities in infrastructure. Like there is lack of community input in, you know, the government processes, you will see like high rises, you will see slums. There is no middle ground. It's very hard, as a resident of Mumbai, to go and voice out or even, you know, speak or have a say or complaint, I would say I don't know where to go over there. So I think that was a bit of frustration in me when I was growing up too. And I have also traveled in small towns and cities in India, within India. So I think, it's the observation for the underserved communities, I would say, who lack voices. And that is what gave me like, you know, what can I do? I just don't want to complain. But, you know, what can I do about it? And that's how I got into architecture. So I used to see all of the cities that are these documentaries on New York City, California, I think San Francisco. They literally show you how the cities work, and it's so operational, like they literally show you the section, like, you know, from where the power is coming from, where the water is coming, how the infrastructure is being built around these highways. So I think growing up, that was one of my biggest inspiration, that led me into planning cities or neighborhood.

So architecture was a small step. That was a five year course in Mumbai that I did, but it gave me a lot of insight on how do you design, keeping in mind the, the community and what they want. And then in New York, I think it was a very big expansion to that, actually getting into the communities, interviewing them, talking to them, being on the ground, getting their inputs on how they see the future neighborhoods or the cities. That's how I kind of landed in this space during Covid there. New York City closed streets for people just for them to enjoy the open space because everybody was they were inside. They wanted to create more public spaces in the city. So what happened was the wealthier communities got much more of open streets compared to the communities, which were low income. So this is what I mean. In disparity, the funding was going to much more, wealthier neighborhoods compared to the low income flow. So I have this question like, how can these communities be less vulnerable and government can provide more funding over there? I also worked on the report. I interviewed people from underserved communities and asked them because for them, that was becoming those those open streets were helping them do Covid testing. Those were becoming grounds for Covid testing, for social interactions, for senior citizens. Those streets were very important, like those public spaces, because they were always enclosed. And this was, you know, also causing depression and anxiety. I think that New York City in general have been working towards that.

They are doing Vision Zero programs. They're closing streets, putting more money in Parks and Recreation. I think it has a direct impact on your physical and mental health, both reducing cars and, and giving more importance to walking infrastructure. I think, the advocacy process is one of the things that I feel is honestly being very consistent, constantly listening to them, constantly showing up and showing results to them. I think that builds trust. That is also part of advocacy, and I think I see my role as more like a facilitator of that list that I listen to them. I have to take these stories to the government. I have to bridge that gap between them. So I see advocacy shaping in that particular way where like influencing the government to make certain changes, but on a positive side and keeping their interest in mind. So it's again, doing pilot projects that is part of advocacy, like you are running projects just for, for 2 or 3 months, showing the results to the government and also to the community of what is working and what is not going to work. So I see like advocacy in these small aspects and, you know, making these changes within community and also perspective of the government, because we are not always on the ground. They need to see the reality. We need to see of what can go wrong. If they execute a project, which is going to be a waste of their funds. [00:10:16][323.6]

Naty: [00:10:17] Hope you liked the episode. Please help us out by rating us. Sharing with your friends or buying us a coffee. Buy me a coffee.com slash. What the hell is my job? It costs us money and time to be here for you at the start of every single week. So please consider supporting us. See you next time. [00:10:17][0.0]

[606.3]